DATKILLERGUY2
2021-04-04T14:38:22+00:00
奥宅的帖子在此：[url]https://bbs.nga.cn/read.php?tid=26190397&fav=3d4ce2b0[/url]
我发此文的目的，并不是要怼他，发给丹麦朋友的目的，也仅仅是八卦一下，想看看作为一名土生土长的本地白人，他的观点是什么。
分享跟大家，以供参考，我也不知道发到清风村是否合适，不过看到上面那个帖子就在这里，索性就在这里发吧。
再次强调，我只是八卦一下，别无恶意。
PS：我和这位丹麦友人，交往多年，他在疫情前，几乎每年都会在冬春时节来一趟中国，与我和几个好友把酒言欢，因此对于中国，还是有一定的熟悉程度的，并且这位老哥已过而立之年，也不是那种小年轻。
分别附上翻译版本(因为时间比较晚了，暂时机翻，需要的话，再详细翻译)，以及英文原版，供大家参考
[quote]
本文作者认为男人和女人在社会上有不同的 "职责"，这说明作者，显然认为女人，应该扮演一个更为传统的角色，比如呆在家里，打扫卫生，做饭这样？
在丹麦，你不需要证就可以结婚，而当你结婚时，你会得到一份结婚证书，我推测，在丹麦，人们不结婚的两个主要原因是。
1. 丹麦并不是一个有着浓重宗教信仰的国家，我们也没有很严格的传统意义上的社会。
所以一般在丹麦，如果他们没有结婚就一起生活和生孩子，也并不会被人瞧不起。
2. 人们结婚没有经济上的原因，但是不结婚可能会产生一些经济上的问题。
比如最近出台的一部比较新的法律，会削减(单独)个人的一些失业福利，这是因为有人认为，在丈夫或妻子找到新工作之前，配偶会帮助养家糊口(这条法律在通过时是一个非常有争议的法律)。
至于 "20%以上的单亲家庭 "都是女方全职工作，男方照顾孩子。20+%听起来很多，但呆在家里的父母其实很少。
在丹麦，男女双方都可以休带薪产假，但不能同时休。
所以，这妥妥的只是一种临时情况，是父母之间的决定，我和作者都无权评判。
没有那么多单亲家庭，因为大多数丹麦父母早上把孩子送到托儿所，下班后再去接他们。
作者声称，有很多双职工家庭，其中女性在经济上处于主导地位......老实说，这听起来像是无稽之谈，我不知道作者是如何得出这个结论的。
一般男性赚的钱，比一般女性多，这主要是因为他们从事的是高薪行业。
至于彩礼和没有房子的问题。在丹麦，大多数人，无论是单独还是与妻子/丈夫一起，如果他们想买房子或自己的公寓，都会向银行借钱。
我看不出这和中国有什么不同，在中国，向银行借钱和/或向家人借钱也很普遍。
唯一不同的是，在中国，男人在结婚前就买了房子，而不是和妻子一起买房子。
结果是一样的，在丹麦和中国，新婚夫妇都会欠银行或家人的钱。
除非他们很有钱，可以努力用现金支付，但老实说，大多数丹麦人和中国人在25-40岁之间没有这样的存款，我想这是普遍的结婚年龄。
此外，在丹麦，租房而不是买房也很常见。
在拥有和租赁房屋或公寓之间，其实并没有太大的区别。
有时租房反而对于未来的家庭经济更有好处，特别是对于新婚夫妇，比如不确定他们是否想要孩子，或者已经有了多少个孩子的情况下。
我们有法律防止房东把人赶到街上去。所以租房是安全的。
而且在丹麦，如果你买了房产，那么你就拥有它，在中国，你只能拥有它70年。
(但是丹麦和中国在经济和法律上有很多不同，所以我觉得作者在做这个比较的时候是错误的)
至于彩礼，在一些国家他们是有的。
比如在中国，男方通常会把彩礼给他的岳父母，他们根据自己的经济状况，把彩礼作为退休金的一部分。
这同样不好比较，同样，因为丹麦和中国的经济差异很大。
另外，"彩礼 "这个词听起来更像是人情往来，就像你必须买下她，就好比在市场上买一条鱼。
我知道不是这样的，但听起来就是这样，我可以想象，如果没有彩礼，有些家庭可能会拒绝同意。
从法律上讲，不一定非得如此，但女方可能不会违背父母的决定，因为这会造成家庭的不和谐。
就我个人而言，我宁愿用这些钱，买房子或者存起来，这样我就可以为我的妻子和孩子提供一个好的生活方式。
但是，丹麦和中国的经济状况又是不同的。
现代中国是一个年轻的国家，只有70年左右的历史，而丹麦在过去的200年里，已经建立并完善了强大的社会和经济 "安全网"，这是中国所没有的，至少没有达到同样的程度。
我可以想象，尤其是中国女人嫁给丹麦男人，她可能会担心父母的经济状况，因为彩礼是可以预期的，甚至可能是父母退休金的必要组成部分？
这听起来像是结婚前，夫妻双方应该商量的事情？
我真的不知道女权主义和这些有什么关系。
这是关于平等的权利，但是夫妻如何使用他们的经济，这是他们自己的事情，他们一起的决定。
关于作者提到的那4对夫妻/情侣的小故事
1. 这个男人听起来像是婚姻不幸福。但这是私人的事情。如果情况反过来，男方做了所有的决定，这将是同样糟糕的。婚姻的本质是团队合作.
2.那个男人花了两万块钱买游戏... ... 这个男人需要成熟起来。那是一大笔钱。有爱好是好事，但是2万... ... 养育3个孩子并不便宜，要不就是这个家庭很有钱，要不就是这个男人很会用钱，而妻子需要处理家庭财务，因为他显然不能。比如说，花2万块钱，他们可以带全家去度假。
3. 作者提到了 "hunhund "这个词，这不是一个性别中立的词。它的字面意思是 "母狗"。我怀疑这是一个笑话，在朋友之间说的，但我不在现场，所以这只是一个猜测。至于他被要求辞掉工作的部分，因为他们在谈恋爱... ... 这可能是公司的政策，但如果她是他的老板，那么她让他辞职的时候，就触犯了性骚扰法。我真的不知道该给些什么建议了。
4. 听起来女方只是想让男方学中文，而男方也想学，所以他们在家里练习。学习一门新的语言是需要时间和精力的，所以他们也许只是想在一家中国餐馆里测试他的理解和发音。作者是否认为，即使你不能流利地说一门外国语言，尝试着说它是错误的？
[/quote][quote]
Saying that men and women have different "duties" in a society, this indicates that the writer, clearly thinks that women, should have a more traditional role, maybe such as staying at home, cleaning and cooking?
In Denmark you dont need a license to get married, and when you get married, you get a marriage certificate. I speculate that the two main reasons for people not to marry in Denmark, is;
1. Danmark isn't a very religious country, nor do we have a very strict traditional sociaty. So generally in Denmark, no one looks down upon others, if they live and have children together without being married.
2. There is no economic reasons for people to get married, but there may be some economic reasons not to get married. Such as a relatively new law, that will cut some of a persons unemployment benifits. Because it is argued that the spouse will help provide for the family, until the husband or wife finds a new job. (This was a very controvercial law when it was passed)
As for the "more than 20% of the single-earners family" have a woman working full time, and the man is taking care of the children. 20+% sounds like a lot, but stay at home parents is actually rare. In Denmark both men and woman can take a paid maternaty leave, but not at the same time. So this is properly just a temporary situation, and something the parents decide between themselves, it is not something I nor the writer have the right to judge. There isn′t that many single-earnes family, since most danish parents send there children to daycare, in the morning, and pick them up after work.
The writer claims, that there are many dual-earner families, where the woman is in a dominant economic position... honestly, this just sounds like nonesence, I don′t know how the writer came to this conclution. The average male makes more money, than the average female, and this is mostly because they work in higher paid industries.
As for bride price and no house. In Denmark most people, either alone or together with their wife/husband borrow money from a bank, if they want to buy a house or their own appartment. I don′t see how this is different from China, where it is also common to borrow money from a bank and/or they borrow from their family.
Only differnce is that in China, the man buys a house, before he can get married, instead of buying a house together with his wife. The outcome is the same, in both Denmark and China, the newly married couple owe money to either a bank or family members. (Unless they are very wealthy and can effort to pay in cash, but honestly, most Danish and Chinese people don′t have that kind of savings at the age between 25-40, which i assume is the common marriage age.
Also in Denmark, it is sometimes common to rent, instead of buying. There really isnt that much difference, between owning and renting a house or appartment. Sometimes it is actually economic more sufficient, especially in the beginning, if the married couple, aint sure if they want children, and if so, how many children.
We have laws to prevent the landlord from kicking people out on the street. So renting is safe. And in Denmark, if you buy a property, then you own it, in China, you can only own it for 70 years. (But there is a lot of economic and legal differences between Denmark and China, so I think the writer was wrong when making this comparison)
As for the bride price, which they have in some countries. In China for example, the man normally gives it to his parents-inlaw, and they, depending on their economic situation, use it as part of their retirement fund. It′s a bad comparison, again, because of the vast economic differences between Denmark and China.
Besides the term "Bride price" sounds more like human trafficing, like you must buy her, similar to buying a fish in a market. (I know it is not like that, but that′s how it sounds like, and I can imagine, that some familes might refuse to give their consent if their is no bride price. Legally there doesn′t have to be, but the woman might not go against her parents decision, because it can create disharmony in the family)
Personally I would rather use those money, to buy a house or save them, so that i can provide a good lifestyle for my wife and children. But, again, the economic situation is different in Denmark and China. Modern China is a young country, only around 70 years old, whereas Denmark, in the last 200 years, have build and improved upon a strong social and economic "safety net", which china does not have, at least not to the same extent.
I can imagine that, especially, a Chinese woman marrying a Danish man, she might be concerned about her parents economic situation, because a bride price is expected, and might even be necessary part of the parents retirement fund?
Sounds like something the married couple should talk about, before they get married?
I am not really sure what feminism have to do with any of this. It′s about equal rights, but how a couple spend their economy, it′s their own business. They decide that together.
Regarding the 4 couples the writer mentioned:
1. The man sounds like he was unhappily married. But that′s a private thing. What if the situation was reversed, and the man made all the decisions, this would be equally bad. Marriage is surposed to be about teamwork.
2.The man spend 20.000 on games... That man needs to grow up. That′s a lot of money. It′s good to have a hobby, but 20.000... It′s not cheap to raise 3 kids, either this is a very wealthy family, or that man is fool with money, and the wife needs to handle the family finance, because he clearly can′t. For 20.000, they could for example take the whole family on a holiday.
3. The writer mentioned the word "hunhund", that′s not a gender neutral word. It literally mean "female dog". I suspect it was said as a joke, and told among friends, but I wasn′t there, so this is just a guess. As for the part where he was told to quit his job, because they were in a romantic relationship... That might be a company policy?, but if she was his boss, then she broke the sexually haressment law, when she told him to resign his job. I really how no other opinion about this.
4. Sound like the woman just wanted the man to learn chinese, and the man also wanted to learn, so they practice at home. It take time and effort to learn a new language, so they perhaps just wanted to test his understanding and pronounciation in a chinese resturant. Does the writer thinks that it is wrong to try and speak a foriegn language, even if you can′t speak it fluently?
[/quote]
我发此文的目的，并不是要怼他，发给丹麦朋友的目的，也仅仅是八卦一下，想看看作为一名土生土长的本地白人，他的观点是什么。
分享跟大家，以供参考，我也不知道发到清风村是否合适，不过看到上面那个帖子就在这里，索性就在这里发吧。
再次强调，我只是八卦一下，别无恶意。
PS：我和这位丹麦友人，交往多年，他在疫情前，几乎每年都会在冬春时节来一趟中国，与我和几个好友把酒言欢，因此对于中国，还是有一定的熟悉程度的，并且这位老哥已过而立之年，也不是那种小年轻。
分别附上翻译版本(因为时间比较晚了，暂时机翻，需要的话，再详细翻译)，以及英文原版，供大家参考
[quote]
本文作者认为男人和女人在社会上有不同的 "职责"，这说明作者，显然认为女人，应该扮演一个更为传统的角色，比如呆在家里，打扫卫生，做饭这样？
在丹麦，你不需要证就可以结婚，而当你结婚时，你会得到一份结婚证书，我推测，在丹麦，人们不结婚的两个主要原因是。
1. 丹麦并不是一个有着浓重宗教信仰的国家，我们也没有很严格的传统意义上的社会。
所以一般在丹麦，如果他们没有结婚就一起生活和生孩子，也并不会被人瞧不起。
2. 人们结婚没有经济上的原因，但是不结婚可能会产生一些经济上的问题。
比如最近出台的一部比较新的法律，会削减(单独)个人的一些失业福利，这是因为有人认为，在丈夫或妻子找到新工作之前，配偶会帮助养家糊口(这条法律在通过时是一个非常有争议的法律)。
至于 "20%以上的单亲家庭 "都是女方全职工作，男方照顾孩子。20+%听起来很多，但呆在家里的父母其实很少。
在丹麦，男女双方都可以休带薪产假，但不能同时休。
所以，这妥妥的只是一种临时情况，是父母之间的决定，我和作者都无权评判。
没有那么多单亲家庭，因为大多数丹麦父母早上把孩子送到托儿所，下班后再去接他们。
作者声称，有很多双职工家庭，其中女性在经济上处于主导地位......老实说，这听起来像是无稽之谈，我不知道作者是如何得出这个结论的。
一般男性赚的钱，比一般女性多，这主要是因为他们从事的是高薪行业。
至于彩礼和没有房子的问题。在丹麦，大多数人，无论是单独还是与妻子/丈夫一起，如果他们想买房子或自己的公寓，都会向银行借钱。
我看不出这和中国有什么不同，在中国，向银行借钱和/或向家人借钱也很普遍。
唯一不同的是，在中国，男人在结婚前就买了房子，而不是和妻子一起买房子。
结果是一样的，在丹麦和中国，新婚夫妇都会欠银行或家人的钱。
除非他们很有钱，可以努力用现金支付，但老实说，大多数丹麦人和中国人在25-40岁之间没有这样的存款，我想这是普遍的结婚年龄。
此外，在丹麦，租房而不是买房也很常见。
在拥有和租赁房屋或公寓之间，其实并没有太大的区别。
有时租房反而对于未来的家庭经济更有好处，特别是对于新婚夫妇，比如不确定他们是否想要孩子，或者已经有了多少个孩子的情况下。
我们有法律防止房东把人赶到街上去。所以租房是安全的。
而且在丹麦，如果你买了房产，那么你就拥有它，在中国，你只能拥有它70年。
(但是丹麦和中国在经济和法律上有很多不同，所以我觉得作者在做这个比较的时候是错误的)
至于彩礼，在一些国家他们是有的。
比如在中国，男方通常会把彩礼给他的岳父母，他们根据自己的经济状况，把彩礼作为退休金的一部分。
这同样不好比较，同样，因为丹麦和中国的经济差异很大。
另外，"彩礼 "这个词听起来更像是人情往来，就像你必须买下她，就好比在市场上买一条鱼。
我知道不是这样的，但听起来就是这样，我可以想象，如果没有彩礼，有些家庭可能会拒绝同意。
从法律上讲，不一定非得如此，但女方可能不会违背父母的决定，因为这会造成家庭的不和谐。
就我个人而言，我宁愿用这些钱，买房子或者存起来，这样我就可以为我的妻子和孩子提供一个好的生活方式。
但是，丹麦和中国的经济状况又是不同的。
现代中国是一个年轻的国家，只有70年左右的历史，而丹麦在过去的200年里，已经建立并完善了强大的社会和经济 "安全网"，这是中国所没有的，至少没有达到同样的程度。
我可以想象，尤其是中国女人嫁给丹麦男人，她可能会担心父母的经济状况，因为彩礼是可以预期的，甚至可能是父母退休金的必要组成部分？
这听起来像是结婚前，夫妻双方应该商量的事情？
我真的不知道女权主义和这些有什么关系。
这是关于平等的权利，但是夫妻如何使用他们的经济，这是他们自己的事情，他们一起的决定。
关于作者提到的那4对夫妻/情侣的小故事
1. 这个男人听起来像是婚姻不幸福。但这是私人的事情。如果情况反过来，男方做了所有的决定，这将是同样糟糕的。婚姻的本质是团队合作.
2.那个男人花了两万块钱买游戏... ... 这个男人需要成熟起来。那是一大笔钱。有爱好是好事，但是2万... ... 养育3个孩子并不便宜，要不就是这个家庭很有钱，要不就是这个男人很会用钱，而妻子需要处理家庭财务，因为他显然不能。比如说，花2万块钱，他们可以带全家去度假。
3. 作者提到了 "hunhund "这个词，这不是一个性别中立的词。它的字面意思是 "母狗"。我怀疑这是一个笑话，在朋友之间说的，但我不在现场，所以这只是一个猜测。至于他被要求辞掉工作的部分，因为他们在谈恋爱... ... 这可能是公司的政策，但如果她是他的老板，那么她让他辞职的时候，就触犯了性骚扰法。我真的不知道该给些什么建议了。
4. 听起来女方只是想让男方学中文，而男方也想学，所以他们在家里练习。学习一门新的语言是需要时间和精力的，所以他们也许只是想在一家中国餐馆里测试他的理解和发音。作者是否认为，即使你不能流利地说一门外国语言，尝试着说它是错误的？
[/quote][quote]
Saying that men and women have different "duties" in a society, this indicates that the writer, clearly thinks that women, should have a more traditional role, maybe such as staying at home, cleaning and cooking?
In Denmark you dont need a license to get married, and when you get married, you get a marriage certificate. I speculate that the two main reasons for people not to marry in Denmark, is;
1. Danmark isn't a very religious country, nor do we have a very strict traditional sociaty. So generally in Denmark, no one looks down upon others, if they live and have children together without being married.
2. There is no economic reasons for people to get married, but there may be some economic reasons not to get married. Such as a relatively new law, that will cut some of a persons unemployment benifits. Because it is argued that the spouse will help provide for the family, until the husband or wife finds a new job. (This was a very controvercial law when it was passed)
As for the "more than 20% of the single-earners family" have a woman working full time, and the man is taking care of the children. 20+% sounds like a lot, but stay at home parents is actually rare. In Denmark both men and woman can take a paid maternaty leave, but not at the same time. So this is properly just a temporary situation, and something the parents decide between themselves, it is not something I nor the writer have the right to judge. There isn′t that many single-earnes family, since most danish parents send there children to daycare, in the morning, and pick them up after work.
The writer claims, that there are many dual-earner families, where the woman is in a dominant economic position... honestly, this just sounds like nonesence, I don′t know how the writer came to this conclution. The average male makes more money, than the average female, and this is mostly because they work in higher paid industries.
As for bride price and no house. In Denmark most people, either alone or together with their wife/husband borrow money from a bank, if they want to buy a house or their own appartment. I don′t see how this is different from China, where it is also common to borrow money from a bank and/or they borrow from their family.
Only differnce is that in China, the man buys a house, before he can get married, instead of buying a house together with his wife. The outcome is the same, in both Denmark and China, the newly married couple owe money to either a bank or family members. (Unless they are very wealthy and can effort to pay in cash, but honestly, most Danish and Chinese people don′t have that kind of savings at the age between 25-40, which i assume is the common marriage age.
Also in Denmark, it is sometimes common to rent, instead of buying. There really isnt that much difference, between owning and renting a house or appartment. Sometimes it is actually economic more sufficient, especially in the beginning, if the married couple, aint sure if they want children, and if so, how many children.
We have laws to prevent the landlord from kicking people out on the street. So renting is safe. And in Denmark, if you buy a property, then you own it, in China, you can only own it for 70 years. (But there is a lot of economic and legal differences between Denmark and China, so I think the writer was wrong when making this comparison)
As for the bride price, which they have in some countries. In China for example, the man normally gives it to his parents-inlaw, and they, depending on their economic situation, use it as part of their retirement fund. It′s a bad comparison, again, because of the vast economic differences between Denmark and China.
Besides the term "Bride price" sounds more like human trafficing, like you must buy her, similar to buying a fish in a market. (I know it is not like that, but that′s how it sounds like, and I can imagine, that some familes might refuse to give their consent if their is no bride price. Legally there doesn′t have to be, but the woman might not go against her parents decision, because it can create disharmony in the family)
Personally I would rather use those money, to buy a house or save them, so that i can provide a good lifestyle for my wife and children. But, again, the economic situation is different in Denmark and China. Modern China is a young country, only around 70 years old, whereas Denmark, in the last 200 years, have build and improved upon a strong social and economic "safety net", which china does not have, at least not to the same extent.
I can imagine that, especially, a Chinese woman marrying a Danish man, she might be concerned about her parents economic situation, because a bride price is expected, and might even be necessary part of the parents retirement fund?
Sounds like something the married couple should talk about, before they get married?
I am not really sure what feminism have to do with any of this. It′s about equal rights, but how a couple spend their economy, it′s their own business. They decide that together.
Regarding the 4 couples the writer mentioned:
1. The man sounds like he was unhappily married. But that′s a private thing. What if the situation was reversed, and the man made all the decisions, this would be equally bad. Marriage is surposed to be about teamwork.
2.The man spend 20.000 on games... That man needs to grow up. That′s a lot of money. It′s good to have a hobby, but 20.000... It′s not cheap to raise 3 kids, either this is a very wealthy family, or that man is fool with money, and the wife needs to handle the family finance, because he clearly can′t. For 20.000, they could for example take the whole family on a holiday.
3. The writer mentioned the word "hunhund", that′s not a gender neutral word. It literally mean "female dog". I suspect it was said as a joke, and told among friends, but I wasn′t there, so this is just a guess. As for the part where he was told to quit his job, because they were in a romantic relationship... That might be a company policy?, but if she was his boss, then she broke the sexually haressment law, when she told him to resign his job. I really how no other opinion about this.
4. Sound like the woman just wanted the man to learn chinese, and the man also wanted to learn, so they practice at home. It take time and effort to learn a new language, so they perhaps just wanted to test his understanding and pronounciation in a chinese resturant. Does the writer thinks that it is wrong to try and speak a foriegn language, even if you can′t speak it fluently?
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